I recently wrote a couple of articles for Smashing Magazine (SM) about Macs, the first Mac specific articles they've published in fact, and I must say the results were compelling. The first article was titled "Five Reasons Why Developers are Switching to Mac," which to date has 441 comments. To put it in perspective, the average SM article has around 100 comments.
Normally, I'd wear this fact like a badge of honor. That many people discussing the article you worked so hard on has got to be a good thing, right? That is, if half of them weren't calling for my blood and denouncing Smashing Magazine. I did my best to keep the article as unbiased as I could, but it's not an easy task when you're an admitted Mac junky. It wasn't until I wrote the second article, "30 Must-Have Tweaks For Your Mac," that I realized that the odds were stacked against me from the outset.
"Stupid motivations for stupid people. You’re a Mac fanboy not a developer or designer." -engineer
The "tweaks" post was about as neutral and straightforward as can be. After all, it's aimed at Mac users. This didn't seem to help much. There was still a conspicuous amount of anti-mac comments. I really can't complain; I've been known to get sucked into more than one Mac vs. PC argument in my day, both on and offline. It's irresistible. Almost as irresistible as debating about religion was to me when I was growing up (I've long since buried that hatchet).
"Tweaks for a mac…pass me a sledgehammer!!!!" -James
I find there are a lot of parallels between the Mac/PC feuds and political or religious debates. Both Mac and PC users tend to be fully dedicated to their platform of choice. More often than not the person has not really given the other side an honest look. Both platforms are great in their own right, and because there isn't a scientifically provable standard for the perfect operating system (yet), neither side is really right or wrong.
So I figure it's worth examining: why are people so passionate about their operating systems? To provide perspective, I'll pepper in a few comments from the two articles I wrote.
1. There are too few choices
When it comes to computing, there are really only three serious options when it comes to the average user as far as operating systems go: Windows, Linux, and OS X. As such, it becomes a lot less ambiguous as to which one is the obvious choice.
Contrast this with the auto industry, for example. Sure, people can be passionate about their cars, but there are so many different brands and models to choose from out there that no one choice can be classified as the runaway favorite. Passions are diluted across these many options, whereas they are magnified in the OS debates by the lack of viable solutions.
The same argument can be made for the religions of the world, of which there are basically 4 dominating varieties (Christianity, Islam, Hindusim, and Non-religous), and especially in politics (liberal vs. conservative).
2. The steep technological investment
While computers have become pretty inexpensive these days (even Macs), there are hidden costs associated with choosing one platform over the others. First, one must account for the amount of time that has been or must be dedicated to learning the ins and outs of that operating system. When I switched to the Mac it took a good couple of months to get truly comfortable with OS X and all the different conventions. Although I enjoyed the process, there are probably more people out there, especially non-technical types, who consider this a chore.
"Mac = fisher price activity centres for adults. Computers for people too scared to learn how real computers work." -winst0n
There is also the software ecosystem surrounding the operating system that one must consider. If you switch to the Mac, you miss out on running a large amount of Windows software natively. If you're on Linux, you have to find alternatives to almost all the popular software available out there for Mac and PC. As a result, because we become so technologically invested in our platform of choice, we are much more apt to get emotional about that choice. After all, we all pride ourselves on being savvy consumers, and what would it say about us if it turned out we've bet on the wrong horse?
"I eventually built a pretty high end hackintosh to attempt to replace the Windows box to do my work. I spent several months on in OSX to find out that it’s a lousy alternative for me. I spent most of my time getting my mouse to feel the same as when in Windows. After buying 2 different programs, I got pretty close. But after about 3 hours I would start getting pains in my wrist. The acceleration curve is just too weird on a Mac." -Tony
"I've been getting tired of Windows to be honest, but using a Mac feels awkward. I’ll probably keep using a PC because:
1) I like being able to customize things, but I’m also lazy. I’d use linux because I could reallycustomize it, but I feel like it’d be too much work.
2) I like playing games, and I don’t want to deal with the hassle of running VM/dual-booting in order to run some of my favorite older games (Fallout 1 & 2).
3) I already have vista. I don’t feel like buying OSX.
4) I know how to use/build/repair a computer myself.
5) I’m already used to the PC’s interface." -Paul
3. Apple and Microsoft have very different marketing styles
Whenever an industry is dominated by just two major offerings there's bound to be drastically different marketing approaches from both the dominating brand and the underdog. Without taking any of Apple and Microsoft's marketing into consideration, people are likely to have a natural affinity for one or the other because of the disparity in market share. In general, Apple appeals to counter-culture, free thinkers, artistic types, and the like, whereas Microsoft tends to attract pragmatists, realists, and people who appreciate the tried and true.
It's probably not too safe for me to make these generalizations because it is a multifaceted and complicated issue. For instance, there are people who choose Apple simply because they oppose the near monopolistic dominance of Microsoft, but there are also people who prefer Microsoft because Windows is more open than Apple in a lot of respects (especially in terms of licensing).
"The real reasons people switch to mac: #1 they look hip when they work in a coffee shop, #2 apple spends millions making commercials paying off bloggers like you to promote their product, and microsoft spends nothing comparatively on marketing." -Jeff
Apple's marketing is legendary as you probably know. The one comment I hear over and over from the PC faithful is that Apple is all marketing. What they are really saying is that the only people who buy Macs are those who fall for marketing gimmicks and fail to do any research about products on their own, unlike the PC crowd. Apple positions itself as the trendy alternative. They target a younger demographic and they barely give a passing nod to the enterprise market. Apple advertisements are written in such a way that reaffirms existing Mac users, irritates PC people who would never switch to Apple anyways, and slyly intrigues those who are fed up with the PC and are on the fence about switching.
"APPLE is for graphic designers and accounting’s! If you really work…MICROSOFT!!!" -Franco
Microsoft has historically not spent all that much on marketing efforts, namely because there was no need to. They have dominated the market for the last 20 years. They also focus heavily on the enterprise market, which is their bread and butter. It wasn't until recently that Microsoft actually started advertising directly to the consumer about Windows and in direct response to Apple's steady rise in popularity. Microsoft is taking the approach that they are offering the time tested solution for a cheaper price that's available on a wide variety of hardware - the very arguments that many PC loyalists themselves make.
Now that we are in an environment where both Microsoft and Apple are directly attacking each other, it has caused people to become more polarized on the issue. Battle lines are being drawn as Apple's market share grows and Microsoft starts to defend its territory.
"I’m a software engineer - I work mostly on server-side enterprise Java systems.. and I don’t know of a single engineer that uses a MAC. Servers are mostly Linux, or else Windows - users out there on the web are practically all on Windows machines.." -P. Anjout
4. We spend more time on our computers than with any other consumer product
Computers have become very personal. They are our gateway to our friends and the world. More and more people are spending more and more time on them, and as such people are becoming more attached to the experience. Knowledge about computers is always tied to professional success, so the pressure to not only understand how to use computers well but to choose the right solution is growing.
"I really think for most of you, that if a computer is as much a part of your life as I think they are, the “too expensive” argument is moot." -Mauvis
Operating systems are extremely complex things, and we all have a tendency to anthropomorphize our computers. If it fails at a task unexpectedly, we get annoyed. If it makes something easier for us, we are pleased. We essentially develop a relationship with our computers, and if that relationship is a positive one we become very attached. Conversely, if we have enough bad experiences with an operating system, we feel betrayed.
If switching to a new operating system solves these issues, we are made instantly bias in favor of that knight in shining armor. I can personally attest to this. A series of unfortunate events on the PC side drove me to give OS X a shot, and because that experience was so positive I have an irrational abhorrence towards Windows. We end up developing a real affinity to our computers, and much like we would defend our friends or family members, we do so for our operating systems.
5. Price
"Mac looks fancy and all, but I’m a die hard Windows fan. I may get a Mac if I win the lottery." - nate
More often than not, it all comes down to price. Apple has positioned themselves as the premium solution whereas Microsoft touts Windows as the better value. After I had resolved to give Apple a chance, price was the thing that kept me from trying out a Mac for many years. It wasn't until I ran into the aforementioned string of issues on my PC that I finally decided to bite the bullet and by the cheapest Mac available at the time; the Mac Mini.
Price is a touchy issue with people because nobody wants to be perceived as being cheap and alternatively nobody wants to be labeled a sucker. Mac users often make the argument that because we spend so much time on our computers, we should be willing to pay a little extra. PC users point to the wide variety of perfectly good PCs out there running windows that ring in at about half the price the average Mac does. Because of the price differential Mac users are often portrayed as elitist and naive and PC users cheap and willing to settle. These are definitely fightin' words.
In Conclusion
I really enjoyed writing the Mac articles for SM and I've long since learned how to ignore flame-baiters so the comments amuse me more than anything. It never ceases to amaze me just how passionate people get about their computers. It's certainly on par with political and religious debates, and it's not going to go away any time soon. And in attempt to bait as many commenters as I can, I will close with the following statement: it is a scientific fact that Macs are better than PCs. Brace for impact! ;-)
Jesse on Saturday, June 20, 2009 at 03:16AM
Excellent article, and I can say that, to a certain extent, I can empathize. I'm a designer / developer working in a nearly all-Microsoft shop (one linux server). I recently bought a Macbook for various reasons (tired of Vista getting in my way, tired of configuring my Linux installs...), and so far I am VERY pleased. But I have caught a little bit of flack from nearly all of my peers who are Windows-only people, most of which have not even tried Linux, much less any version of Mac OS. As my boss so eloquently stated in response to my asking if he'd seen the new Macbooks, "Sorry, I don't get the Toys-r-Us circular," so goes the general attitude toward non-windows from the people I personally interact with. However, I think if a lot of people checked their pride and egos at the door and gave not only Mac OS, but versions of Linux, a good objective go, I think it would ultimately lead to a bit of enlightenment, regardless of whether or not they decided to make a switch in their computing environment. Any takers?
Ajen on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 at 02:32PM
ive decided to go back to a windows or a linux box. ive had my mac for about 5 years now and its been great, but the one thing that really gets me is that when i need to upgrade some hardware, it means buying a whole new system. that really gets me. why would i want to buy a whole new computer for over $1,000 when all i really need is a new video card?
i think its cheaper to just build your own and tweek it however you want with whatever you want whenever you want even if it means using a lamer OS.
I tell you what; if mac found a way to make it so i could upgrade my hardware id stay with mac.
Kelly on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 at 02:39PM
I was totally a pc person and now I'm definitely a mac person. Maybe slightly because of you!
Scott V on Saturday, June 27, 2009 at 04:32PM
Mark, sublime article. I loved it. I used to "hate" on Macs mainly because I had never used one, and everybody seemed to think PC's were better. Im caught up right now. I have a Windows desktop computer, and just got a Windows Vista Laptop which is way cool. Vista is actually similar to Mac(I think) in the sense of how its graphics work. I definitely want to try a Mac for the next computer I get. Since im a developer, I hear Mac would be a great choice.
Tim P on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 08:18AM
I have to say that I run both a MacBook Pro and a $500 Toshiba notebook. I use my Mac not for OSX but for the confidence I have in the hardware. I expect my computer to have the same reliability of my 20 year old washer, but I am also a college student who goes places with his computer. If somebody spills their coffee on my Toshiba while we are brainstorming in the cafeteria, I'm not gonna have a aneurysm. The quality materials used in my Mac have had it run like clockwork for the last two years without being turned off (except when out of town for extended periods). As PC's start to really cut costs to hit those low price points, my confidence slips in their choice of hardware, and let's face the fact that it's pretty hard to build your own laptop so quality control is out of my hands...
Tim P on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 08:18AM
I have to say that I run both a MacBook Pro and a $500 Toshiba notebook. I use my Mac not for OSX but for the confidence I have in the hardware. I expect my computer to have the same reliability of my 20 year old washer, but I am also a college student who goes places with his computer. If somebody spills their coffee on my Toshiba while we are brainstorming in the cafeteria, I'm not gonna have a aneurysm. The quality materials used in my Mac have had it run like clockwork for the last two years without being turned off (except when out of town for extended periods). As PC's start to really cut costs to hit those low price points, my confidence slips in their choice of hardware, and let's face the fact that it's pretty hard to build your own laptop so quality control is out of my hands...
Tim P on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 08:18AM
I have to say that I run both a MacBook Pro and a $500 Toshiba notebook. I use my Mac not for OSX but for the confidence I have in the hardware. I expect my computer to have the same reliability of my 20 year old washer, but I am also a college student who goes places with his computer. If somebody spills their coffee on my Toshiba while we are brainstorming in the cafeteria, I'm not gonna have a aneurysm. The quality materials used in my Mac have had it run like clockwork for the last two years without being turned off (except when out of town for extended periods). As PC's start to really cut costs to hit those low price points, my confidence slips in their choice of hardware, and let's face the fact that it's pretty hard to build your own laptop so quality control is out of my hands...
Tim P on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 08:18AM
I have to say that I run both a MacBook Pro and a $500 Toshiba notebook. I use my Mac not for OSX but for the confidence I have in the hardware. I expect my computer to have the same reliability of my 20 year old washer, but I am also a college student who goes places with his computer. If somebody spills their coffee on my Toshiba while we are brainstorming in the cafeteria, I'm not gonna have a aneurysm. The quality materials used in my Mac have had it run like clockwork for the last two years without being turned off (except when out of town for extended periods). As PC's start to really cut costs to hit those low price points, my confidence slips in their choice of hardware, and let's face the fact that it's pretty hard to build your own laptop so quality control is out of my hands...
Tim P on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 08:18AM
I have to say that I run both a MacBook Pro and a $500 Toshiba notebook. I use my Mac not for OSX but for the confidence I have in the hardware. I expect my computer to have the same reliability of my 20 year old washer, but I am also a college student who goes places with his computer. If somebody spills their coffee on my Toshiba while we are brainstorming in the cafeteria, I'm not gonna have a aneurysm. The quality materials used in my Mac have had it run like clockwork for the last two years without being turned off (except when out of town for extended periods). As PC's start to really cut costs to hit those low price points, my confidence slips in their choice of hardware, and let's face the fact that it's pretty hard to build your own laptop so quality control is out of my hands...
Tim P on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 08:17AM
I have to say that I run both a MacBook Pro and a $500 Toshiba notebook. I use my Mac not for OSX but for the confidence I have in the hardware. I expect my computer to have the same reliability of my 20 year old washer, but I am also a college student who goes places with his computer. If somebody spills their coffee on my Toshiba while we are brainstorming in the cafeteria, I'm not gonna have a aneurysm. The quality materials used in my Mac have had it run like clockwork for the last two years without being turned off (except when out of town for extended periods). As PC's start to really cut costs to hit those low price points, my confidence slips in their choice of hardware, and let's face the fact that it's pretty hard to build your own laptop so quality control is out of my hands...
Tim P on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 08:17AM
I have to say that I run both a MacBook Pro and a $500 Toshiba notebook. I use my Mac not for OSX but for the confidence I have in the hardware. I expect my computer to have the same reliability of my 20 year old washer, but I am also a college student who goes places with his computer. If somebody spills their coffee on my Toshiba while we are brainstorming in the cafeteria, I'm not gonna have a aneurysm. The quality materials used in my Mac have had it run like clockwork for the last two years without being turned off (except when out of town for extended periods). As PC's start to really cut costs to hit those low price points, my confidence slips in their choice of hardware, and let's face the fact that it's pretty hard to build your own laptop so quality control is out of my hands...
Tim P on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 08:16AM
I have to say that I run both a MacBook Pro and a $500 Toshiba notebook. I use my Mac not for OSX but for the confidence I have in the hardware. I expect my computer to have the same reliability of my 20 year old washer, but I am also a college student who goes places with his computer. If somebody spills their coffee on my Toshiba while we are brainstorming in the cafeteria, I'm not gonna have a aneurysm. The quality materials used in my Mac have had it run like clockwork for the last two years without being turned off (except when out of town for extended periods). As PC's start to really cut costs to hit those low price points, my confidence slips in their choice of hardware, and let's face the fact that it's pretty hard to build your own laptop so quality control is out of my hands...
Tim P on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 08:16AM
I have to say that I run both a MacBook Pro and a $500 Toshiba notebook. I use my Mac not for OSX but for the confidence I have in the hardware. I expect my computer to have the same reliability of my 20 year old washer, but I am also a college student who goes places with his computer. If somebody spills their coffee on my Toshiba while we are brainstorming in the cafeteria, I'm not gonna have a aneurysm. The quality materials used in my Mac have had it run like clockwork for the last two years without being turned off (except when out of town for extended periods). As PC's start to really cut costs to hit those low price points, my confidence slips in their choice of hardware, and let's face the fact that it's pretty hard to build your own laptop so quality control is out of my hands...
nathan jeffery on Saturday, June 27, 2009 at 07:18PM
Awesome article. I currently use a XP Based notebook, but can't wait to move to Mac(the new unibody macbook pro)...
they are a bit pricey, but you only get what you pay for. No PC will ever come close to the synergy you find between, Mac Hardware and OS X and No PC offers the type of system specs, bundled into a Mac.
thanks again for a good read.
Jacob Ras on Friday, August 07, 2009 at 03:35PM
Interesting article! I use WinXP (SP3) and I still like it.
Jacob Ras on Friday, August 07, 2009 at 03:34PM
Interesting article! I use WinXP (SP3) and I still like it.
Jacob Ras on Friday, August 07, 2009 at 03:34PM
Interesting article! I use WinXP (SP3) and I still like it.
Jacob Ras on Friday, August 07, 2009 at 03:34PM
Interesting article! I use WinXP (SP3) and I still like it.
Jacob Ras on Friday, August 07, 2009 at 03:34PM
Interesting article! I use WinXP (SP3) and I still like it.
Jacob Ras on Friday, August 07, 2009 at 03:34PM
Interesting article! I use WinXP (SP3) and I still like it.
Jacob Ras on Friday, August 07, 2009 at 03:34PM
Interesting article! I use WinXP (SP3) and I still like it.
Jacob Ras on Friday, August 07, 2009 at 03:34PM
Interesting article! I use WinXP (SP3) and I still like it.
J. Smith on Thursday, October 08, 2009 at 04:59PM
I used to be like the Mac naysayers. I learned computers on a PC and used a Mac one time in school and absolutely hated the experience. When I got to college, that had not changed. All of my classes were pretty much done on PC or my laptop (also PC). Then, I had to take a class where we edited video on a Mac. It completely changed my outlook on the system. Comparatively, I've found that I've had fewer crashes/bugs/problems in general with the Mac than the PC. My office Mac (purchased sometime in 2006) runs better than the brand new PCs running Vista littered around my department. Even my boss is jealous and wants to upgrade to a Mac.
I can get way more done on this Mac without it acting crazy and freezing up...not the case with my PC laptop. I can only run maybe one or two programs at the same time.
As for the price debate, it boils down to this. You can buy a slightly more expensive Mac and have that sucker for 7 years with little or no hang ups or you can buy a cheap PC and have to replace parts or the whole thing within 2 years. You get what you pay for.
As an user of both platforms on a regular basis, Mac is far superior.
J. Smith on Thursday, October 08, 2009 at 05:00PM
I used to be like the Mac naysayers. I learned computers on a PC and used a Mac one time in school and absolutely hated the experience. When I got to college, that had not changed. All of my classes were pretty much done on PC or my laptop (also PC). Then, I had to take a class where we edited video on a Mac. It completely changed my outlook on the system. Comparatively, I've found that I've had fewer crashes/bugs/problems in general with the Mac than the PC. My office Mac (purchased sometime in 2006) runs better than the brand new PCs running Vista littered around my department. Even my boss is jealous and wants to upgrade to a Mac.
I can get way more done on this Mac without it acting crazy and freezing up...not the case with my PC laptop. I can only run maybe one or two programs at the same time.
As for the price debate, it boils down to this. You can buy a slightly more expensive Mac and have that sucker for 7 years with little or no hang ups or you can buy a cheap PC and have to replace parts or the whole thing within 2 years. You get what you pay for.
As an user of both platforms on a regular basis, Mac is far superior.
J. Smith on Thursday, October 08, 2009 at 05:01PM
I used to be like the Mac naysayers. I learned computers on a PC and used a Mac one time in school and absolutely hated the experience. When I got to college, that had not changed. All of my classes were pretty much done on PC or my laptop (also PC). Then, I had to take a class where we edited video on a Mac. It completely changed my outlook on the system. Comparatively, I've found that I've had fewer crashes/bugs/problems in general with the Mac than the PC. My office Mac (purchased sometime in 2006) runs better than the brand new PCs running Vista littered around my department. Even my boss is jealous and wants to upgrade to a Mac.
I can get way more done on this Mac without it acting crazy and freezing up...not the case with my PC laptop. I can only run maybe one or two programs at the same time.
As for the price debate, it boils down to this. You can buy a slightly more expensive Mac and have that sucker for 7 years with little or no hang ups or you can buy a cheap PC and have to replace parts or the whole thing within 2 years. You get what you pay for.
As an user of both platforms on a regular basis, Mac is far superior.
Sam on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 09:48AM
I never saw so much bullshit in my life about Mac & PC.
Sam on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 09:48AM
I never saw so much bullshit in my life about Mac & PC.
Sam on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 09:48AM
I never saw so much bullshit in my life about Mac & PC.
Ldee on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 at 06:08PM
Good article, fair, unbiased - you took responsibility for your opinons. I, frankly, am tired of computers, and miss my phone.... perhaps this is why iphones also came to market...onward & upward.
Ldee on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 at 06:08PM
Good article, fair, unbiased - you took responsibility for your opinons. I, frankly, am tired of computers, and miss my phone.... perhaps this is why iphones also came to market...onward & upward.
Ldee on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 at 06:08PM
Good article, fair, unbiased - you took responsibility for your opinons. I, frankly, am tired of computers, and miss my phone.... perhaps this is why iphones also came to market...onward & upward.
Ldee on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 at 06:08PM
Good article, fair, unbiased - you took responsibility for your opinons. I, frankly, am tired of computers, and miss my phone.... perhaps this is why iphones also came to market...onward & upward.
Paulo Gabriel on Thursday, January 07, 2010 at 10:31PM
Very good article. I'm a PC user (Toshiba Laptop) and I know: If you can buy a Mac, do that. You get what you pay for. Performance, stability, security.
Very very good article. Thanks from Brazil! :)
Paulo Gabriel on Thursday, January 07, 2010 at 10:31PM
Very good article. I'm a PC user (Toshiba Laptop) and I know: If you can buy a Mac, do that. You get what you pay for. Performance, stability, security.
Very very good article. Thanks from Brazil! :)
Paulo Gabriel on Thursday, January 07, 2010 at 10:31PM
Very good article. I'm a PC user (Toshiba Laptop) and I know: If you can buy a Mac, do that. You get what you pay for. Performance, stability, security.
Very very good article. Thanks from Brazil! :)
Paulo Gabriel on Thursday, January 07, 2010 at 10:31PM
Very good article. I'm a PC user (Toshiba Laptop) and I know: If you can buy a Mac, do that. You get what you pay for. Performance, stability, security.
Very very good article. Thanks from Brazil! :)
Paulo Gabriel on Thursday, January 07, 2010 at 10:31PM
Very good article. I'm a PC user (Toshiba Laptop) and I know: If you can buy a Mac, do that. You get what you pay for. Performance, stability, security.
Very very good article. Thanks from Brazil! :)
Paulo Gabriel (2) on Thursday, January 07, 2010 at 10:34PM
And a very good interface, of course!
hthf on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:24PM
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hthf on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:24PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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hthf67 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 at 03:25PM
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